Terra Nova Advocate, 1881-05-04, vol. 02, no. 35

              VERITAS     OMNIUM   fIC'IRIX
VOL 2.
*ST JOHNS, NEWFOUNDLAND, WEDNESDAY, MAY 4, 1881.
WO 35.
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JOSEPH ENGLISH,
HOUSE   Or" A3S£iiBLY
Tiilrsoay, March 31.
Mouse opened  pursuant to adjournment at halt-post three o'clock.
The House went into Committeo on
the Intoxicating Liquor* Bill.
Mr GOODRIDGE iu the chair.
Hon Mr WINTER. -The mam object
ofthe measuic belore tbe chair has been
explained Swfcwe, aini bun mem bora aro
well acquainted wilh the principle. Il
therefore only remained tur in tit lo explain the particular objec I ot the tf. st
Met km which bo would now propone.
The object is to narrow down as much ae
possible the area in which tbe poll is tu
be taken which under lhe present Permissive Act was extended to lhe whole
ofthe electoral district. Tho intention
of thepiesent bill is to narrow dowi the
district, in which the law may be-put in
loi co, to uny biu-bor a«illomeiil or town j
in tha colony. The question at first pre i
sented a difficulty aa to how tuoso limit* '
wero to bo defined, as in viewing our various Legislative enactments there does
not appear to bo any deliuite li-niitatiun
set forth for any locality or harbor. Tbe
boundaries cf the Road Board and educational districts are not sufficiently definite to make thom applicable, and the
best and only idea suitable io tbo carrying out of the act is therefore contained
in tho section, in which il is in torn led
tliat tho people themselves shall point
out the limits in which they wish the
net to operate. Tbe suggestion i- the
best thai can be adopted, nnd being very
simple, to those'acquainted with our
outports, il will be easiy and inexpensively carried out. The people 'will in
their petition point out the locality and
the limits in which tbey wish tho act to
operate, and the poll will be taken, and
the law put in force within theso boundaries. Tbe necessity for the present
measure has been forcing itsolt upon the
people for some years and the dissatisfaction created in many places lately by
the insuffiency ofthe present Permissive
Bill l-jas loudly called lor tbe pres-nt
bill. There seems to be an impression
on the minis of some magistrates in the
rutports that they have no power to
withold d license from an applicant and
the result bus been thai in spite of the
f:iriie-t entreaties, representation and
petitions of a veiy largo majority of tho
inhabitants of any particular locality
against the granting of license , the ma-
■_,'i.-trate,ticting upon this erroneous view
lias granted licenses. It was proposed bj
ihis act to take away that power lrom
lhe magistrate wliich permits him
against the wish of perhaps ninotj'-nine
out of a hundred of the residents of a locality to give a n.an a license. The people claim thnt inrtead of ao unrnly
neigh'oourhood caused by the .-xistenco
ofa public house, thoy have a right lo
hare a quiet orderly and well COH-d ctol
town or locality, free from any of tbo
dungei-s whicb .the publit houses cause.
The principle is already reeognised by a
•statute in existence, but to the carrying
out that principle more etl'cctuuliy wo
consider tie present proposed measure
necessary Tho measure only narrows
down the limits in which the principle
already upon our Sutute Book is U ope-
rate, and instead of defining it on the
statute it ie proposed, as he befof-e st'it-
•d, to permit the people to point out and
define the boundaries them elves, iio
hoped and expected the measure wouid
receive the warm supjiort of tho house,
and he had much pleasure iu pioposir.g
the reading ot the first section.
Thiq section having beon read,
Mr LITTLE said, now that the houso
was in Committee, and af or the explanation of the general object of the Bill,
and the p-irticiilai* section proposed, ho
thought it right to make a few observations upon the Bill. The first thing remarkable about the moasuro is the absentee of any satisfactory statement as
diffleuk to draw the line of demarcation,
and afterwards, owing to tbe contiguity
ot the oilier divisions, of that harbor,
the law must undouotedly fail in its effect. There was another serious obstacle
lo the enforcement of thia Act whicb existed in many localities besido the one to
which   he was  now  referring.   Evory
lohow thi measure is to be carried oui, Isumcrer numbers  of vessels supplying
and in what places and within what limits. So far, the hon tho introducer of|
tho moasuro had not given any explanation oftho necessity for the presont measure which would induce him (MrL) to
give his -u'pport to the Bill. Thg only
reason advanced by the hon member is
that it has been found necessary in one
or two large electoral districts to narrow down the limits of area in which the
poll is to be taken, and in which tho act
is to bo put in force, in other -words to
introduce iho narrow gauge. Tiio hon
in reducer alleges as ouo of his reasons
for tho necessity of this measure that
petitions and remonstrances were re*-
con'.ly addressed to a magistrate against
the giant of*any license in a particular
locality, but tbat tho magistrate vxer-
cised a discretion and granted the li
ceuso. If the hoo gentlsman is correct
in ibis version of the facts, he [Mr L]
considered lhat lhe magistrate in question did njldo his du'y, for he should
not,against tie remonstrances of so largo
a majority ofthe peoplo of thai locality,
have granted any license to any
' spirits.    For if the people bj-
bait tc the French, cirryfag liquors, en>
tared jo harbor and retailed spirits.
UnderJthis ..mondracnt would they be
permitted t»> reta*"! these .liquors to the
iiiliabt'anti. The question would natnr-
ally at; be how far into the water those
rules extended, in suoh. places as the
one he>mentidned it would be almost
impossible to overcome this diffioultj-.
These^ wore matters of detail which
would bo cast upon tho shoulders of
officials, but must provo serious obstacles
to tho enlorcement of the Act Let
those v ho are desirous of modifying
this evi by reatric'ing the sale of intoxi-
eating iquors adopt the more effectual
course tA: totally prohioiting thoir im-
portal idis. Let "no liquor admitted
here" be emblasoned on Cuckold's Head
iu large/ and unmistakeable characters.
But then' lot hon. gentlemen ask thora-
eolves, Jtvhat would become of our revenue ? He contended tbat we are a
tempo rate peoplo. The people of this
countiy, law-abiding, peaceful and moial
as thoy aro, could not bo anything but a
induij tern penile people. One could travel in
large j many  uris ol tho world boioto he would
ore tully pers
ind editions
ijority show to the satisfaction of tho j find "a joople, whoso vacations are pur-
magistrate that the granting of a license sued o t the son. and whose general bo-
iu that particular locality wotih' bo inju-| havioi)i* and transactions are so well
ri ms and offensive, tho magistrate would i conduced in consequence, us he con-
bo exercising a wiso and discreet judg-' to:ide<y.if thoir sobriety, Ho was thore-
ineiit in refusing a license lie did not j fore t^lly persuaded that the ondeavoui
know thon of any reason for altering the
present law or adopt'ng any measures
which would deprive tho magistrate of
the power of volition. We havo or'we
should huvo a thorough reliance in tho
dis. retion of our stipendiary magistrates. If tiiitortiinatoy thoro should
exist in any locality, peoplo who cannot
drink without injuring themselves or
causing troublo to their neighboius, tho
magistrates should r.ot facilitate tho
means of their getting liquor, but if thoro
should exist in a locality a large majority of the people who represent to the
magistaate that the granting of a license
uld cause breaches of the poaco,or that
ions of associations whose basis
H--IS iolA abstinence, hnd afterward tbo
muliul assistance of its-mombors woro
fully sufficient lo resist any inlomper-
ance that might exist. Thoro is good
and practical sense in such organizations
and the moro the}* oxlond throughout the
commi niiy tho better. They should
not, h ; vevpr, force their.opinions and
ideas *.pon othor persons, nor petition
the Legislature for the purpose of obtaining hand and 'nst rules lor tho directing
of thojr.iodo of living ef any other body
of peraftis. Ho could not boliovo in enforced-rcniporanco. A man's inclinations
in this matter cmnot, and should not bo
it is ia anyway for tho benefit ot tbejattompted to be submitted to tho iron
locality that no license should bo gram- hand of the law. There is something
ed, then '.lie magistrate would be dere-1 superior to anything that we can enuci
lict in his duty if ho, aflor such ropu«! here w.« ieh must work on a man's mine1
preeenUiTions, granted a license to retail! in orde to bring him back to the lime
spirituous liquors. We havo already j oath. 7ith that supernatural power we
upon the "-"Intute Book a law similar to'ciiLnot iiterfore.    Tho creation of laws
ises from
a different moti.e altogether.    We have
upon the s*"latute Book a law similar tojciiLnot ii torf<
tho present in principle and of which I lor the ggrevei
tbis was only an amendment. By that" '*"' *
law any district under certain conditions
can have the provisions of the act extended to it. Tho proposed amendment
must to 6ome extent 'change Uie princi-
p e ofthe Permissive Act 03* narrowing
cow 1 its operation to certain small localities instead of at present to the whole
district. Ho did think it imprudent and
unwise to interfere with this Act that
cght to have been praotically tested
throughout the Island. I* this law had
been set into practical operation in uny
district in the country, what le would,
ask would have been tbe results? If hon
g jntlemon we-e desirous ot altorirg tho
law thoy ought to shew the particular
public*want lhat had to be supplied or
the public grievance that called for redress. No substantial reason, he submitted, had been adduced thut would
warrant the Hou?e in taking tho pro.
posed step. He.could not considor the
proposed Bill any improvement on tho
present l*.w. He believed that tho
amendment must in its operation resullin
numerous complications and confusions.
Ho would instunce St. John's: Supposing the residents of Quidi Vidi were desirous of enforcing the amended Permissive Bil. there would be considerable
difficulty in defining the limits of that
.-01*lemon 1. After tbe line of demarka-
lion bud been drawn how many grog
shops would be stai ted on tho boundary
of tne locality. Instead of the evil being miligaied it would be intensified.
Contusion must necessarily   arise from
jaws with reference ta this subject. Tbo
Poriu_ijfivo Act was passed bore about
nine ygars ago, and ils provisions have
been carried out in several parts of the
Island, and ho believed io no pluee
would a magistrate decline granting Uip
prayers ofthe united poople ofthe locality under his jurisdiction. Undor thoso
tircumjlnncos he could not cencur with
tho iroposer of this amendment,
thoug he believed him to be actuated
by pJieclly worthy motives. Unit it
would, ie expedient to limit she application ov the act to particular localities.
Contrary to tho*spi. it of Legislation no
, exisliiW^ evils had beon pointed out lhat
i required this law to remody them , lut on
' the other hand weie fho present bill placed upon the Statute book, it must work
preju .icially to a recognized class in this
and other communities wiioso trade has
yet to be shown to bo an evil. The law
would be retrospective so far as those
person embarked in this particular trade
wore C\ noorned, and therefore, of necessity wc nd inflict upou thorn sovere injury*  J
Mr. O'MARA regretted that he could
agreo with his hoo. and learned friend
the member for Burin in.this matter. He
(Mr. (nl.) had boen eonnccted with
tornperuaco manors tor somo yoars past
and ins experience in that direction bad
led him to the belief tbat compulsion cannot provo a satisfsctory
substitute "for voiuntrry consent in
making them temporate.    The hon aod
lho opera.ion of thin law wero it fo bo leaiWT -novor ot this bill and every hon
enforced in Holyrood in the district geutlor*,* ui in the house must be perfect-
which lie had the honour to represent. I ly wolll'i.ware of lio fact that terap-r-
That -.ettloinent wus divided into threo j unco is i. the present time making great
I parts, North Holyrood, South Holyrood 1 and rapii strides am >ngat our poople.
and tbe Northern  Arm.    It would  be This adwucemont was caused not hy any
legal enaotmenls, but to a certain extent
by the legititrate ard proper advocacy
of tomperance principles and the awakening on the part ot the people themselves to tho dire consequences which
results from an indulgence in habits of
intemperance. It was a voluntary step
upon tbeir part It was his opinion that
were such a measure as the proposed
formulated into law it would havo a contrary effect to what was intended and defeat ito own-end by causing an increased
number of shebeen shops. Nothing was
more to be feared by tempeainco reformers and in fact any one who gives any
consideration to the subject than these
establishment*. In these places increased facilities ior private drinking would
be afforded and their increase must prove
the greatest injury to the youth of the
country. Looking at the matter from an
economical standpoint we are forcibly
reminded of tho fact thai their increase
moans a consequent increase ofour constabulary. It did not appear to him that
sufficient causo existed for additional le-.
gislution on this subject, instead of
drunkenness being on the increase* judging from the Budget of Hon Receiver
General, it had mot with considerable
diminution. In temperance legislation
be thought there was a certain amount
of inconsistency exhibited. There was
at present on tho Statuto Book ao Act
empowering the issuing of licenses lor
sule ot intoxicating liquors sido by sido
with which it was proposed to placo the
proposed measure, wh_)se objest was to
prevent such side. Ho agreed wilh his
b«u and learned lriond, the member for
Harbor Main that by tie formerAct the
discretionary powor, vested in the Magistrate is quite sufficient to meet with
all present requirements- If anything
further wa* to De done tbe means adopted for its performance should be moral
suasion instead ot legal compulsion. Wo
havo a striking example of the effect of
moral suasion in tbo settlement or Tor-
bay in Uie Dislrict of Sl John's Easl. In
thul placo through the laudable exertions of lho Rev Father Clark th-ro are
al the present time no loss than throo
hundred mon who havo subscribed thoir
names to the total abstinence pledge. A
8hoi t timo since four or fivo licensed
houses were doiug business ihere and
now thero is but ono and*that only pa-
trorisod by visitors. Tbo amount of
good achieved through moral means not
only in St John's but throughout the
wholo country was incalculable. The
proposed amondmont did not seem to bis
mind to possess feasibility. Ho would
instance Sl John's as an illustration oi
bis views. The t vo districts of St
John's East i.n.1 West terminated at a
common division in the centre of tho
town known as Beck's Cove. At the
late election of a representative lo this
house from the district jt St John's
West, a proclamation was issued, com.
manding theclos-ng of all liquor stores
in lhe said district while the polls.woro
being taken It merely had lho effect
of increasing the salos in grog shops in
tho Eastern portion of* lhe town.and that
wouid be the only effect this amendment
could have. Ho therdforo considered it
very a Ivisable to empower the taking
ofa sectional vote, as il would inevitably
result in numerous complications and
bring tbe law into disrepute There wes
but one effectual mode of legislation tor
this subject, and that was by tho proven *
tiju ol tli.' introduction of in toxic nils
into the cou..try. Thero was no use in
attempting to cut down the gigantic tree
of intempcranco to ccinmoneo at the
bia iche-i. Wo must go to the root-
Mi* PARSONS was opposed 10 hasty
legislation. Ho considered the provisions of tbe bill exceedingly arbitrary.
Supposing the case ofa man holding a
licensed house in such a locality as
Prescott Street, b) the bill as he understood it, the resident's woro empowered
to stop thai man's business by taking a
poll. W« should have, by this bill, elections every week or month in the year.
.There is sufficient power abeady in the
hands of the Magistrates to refuse to
grant liconso-i, and that was all that was
needed. Although a tomperanoe man
himself, he could not snpport the present tall. He thought that further time
should be allowed ior deliberation upon
so important a matter as that with
which wo are now dealing.
Mr. SCOTT thougnt that considering
the difference of opinion that existed on
so important a aubject, that the committee ought to rise and further timo should
be allowed ior its consideration. Ho
agreed with the hon. gentleman who
nrecod him that there did not appear to
he sufficient reasons advanced to warrant them ia making tho proposed
change. At an early part bf the session
we wore informed through the Budget
S])oech lhat there had been a considerable diminution in the consumption of
liquor during the past year. Appearances do hot indicate any increase this
year. A few weeks ago several thousands of our peoplo were preparing to
embark upon the voyage to the seal
fishery, and amongst, that largo number
of people ho did not believe that a soli
tai-y case of drunkeness was brought
under the notice of the magistrates.
He did not think, therefore, that circumstances called forth the proposed
miasure. Personal liberty was iar too
dear to be interfered with unless there
existed an absolute necessity: The use
of strong drink in moderation was not
in his opinion a curse. Such a use of it
was clearly sanctioned both by Scripture
and by tbe highest medical authorities.
We should use tho best means in our
power to enoourge total abstinence societies. H hon. gontlemen instead of
supporting the prosent bill would lend
their personal assistance to temperauce
organizations, take part in their meetings and appear in their processions,
tbeir efforts would* be attondod with
greater success to the cause of temperance. It would be an impossibility to
carry this iaw into effect in St. John's.
It would only result in the incroaae of
shebeens. To advance the causo of tain-
porauce more suasion not legal enactment was thc correct and effectual
means.
Mr MACKAY—From the reasoning
of hon. genUemor. who preceded him it
would appear lhat tbis Bill was speciallr
made for St. John's. They had gone to
the troublo of procuring argumonta to
provo that tho Bill would be inoperative
in St. John's; a conclusion which the
supporters of the moasure admitted in as
much as it would, in all probability,
never be attempted to be ouforced thore.
But hoiw gentlemen should remember
that thero woro othor places to bo legislated for beside ;Su John's. The Per-
missivo Act, of whicb the Bill is an
offshoot, allowed electoral districts to tako
poll and docido for ihemeelvea whether
or not they would permit the sale of intoxicating liquors within their borders,
ll had been found in practico to be un.
j wia'dy ; to those who had temperance
at heart,.but whose purses woro not long
it was practically an impossibility to
have the provisions of the Act enforced
in their districts. On last session petitions were presenjed hoie, praying that
the Permissive Bill may be so modified
us to allow the prevention of the salo of
intoxicating liquors in any district under
the control of a Road Board by a two*
thirds vote of the electors resident in
such district. It appeared to him that
personal liberty was not unduly on-
croachod upon when two thirds of the
inhabitants of tbo place decided tbat it
was desirable that the sale of liquor
should be prohibited there. He could
soo no reasonable objection te granting
the powors conferred by the proposed
bill. This House allowed that the Permissive Act was a desirable measare
and passed it If we hare admitted the
major prinoiple, he failed to see why we
should reject the minor. The principal
ofthe Bill hud been already admitted bv
the Legislature and the proposed amendment but a modification in detail for tho
purposo cf a more thorough effectuation
ofthe original bid.
Hon.- RECEIVER GENERAL—On
last year a number of petitions from dit°«
ferent places in Notre Dame Bay, Trin-
I iiy and Conception Bays, as well as from
|- several of the prinoiple places in Western part of tho island were presented
hero requesting this houso to make certain amendments in the Permissive Act.
To take a poll undor tbe present Aot
would entail an expenditure in many
districts of an anion ut exeeding one h uu-
dred pounds'. The petitioners request
that tho Act might be so modified as to
provide for the taking of a vote in a vote
uuder the control of a Road Bi.ird,thereby obviating tho groat difficulty  to  its